tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post2496652522719800836..comments2024-03-04T04:09:12.742-06:00Comments on Quiet Life: Bonhoeffer: The Book Beginnings.Donna Boucherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06699431983937413613noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-49401839476966447452013-03-30T08:58:26.574-05:002013-03-30T08:58:26.574-05:00To go or not to go?
I vividly remember struggling...To go or not to go?<br /><br />I vividly remember struggling with that decision. We had a 9 month old baby and sleep was scarce. On Sunday morning all we wanted to do was rest. For six days a week we worked hard, and getting up and going to church on Sunday simply seemed like too much effort. Maybe we could just gather together at home, in our “domestic church”...<br /><br />One morning, as we lobbed the question back and forth like a hot-potato: “Do you want to go?”, “I don’t know do you want to go?” It was obvious that neither one of us wanted to go, but neither one of us wanted to own the responsibility and the guilt that came with not attending. So one Sunday morning I got mad, and I did something impulsive. <br /><br />It’s one of those times you can remember precisely; where you were standing when it happened. I told my husband that I was “sick-and-tired” of having the same conversation every Sunday morning, that either we were a family that went to church EVERY Sunday, or we were a family that didn’t go to church. Period. <br /><br />I have spoken and written many times about this turning point in our lives. It was as though the “hot-potato” was suspended in air, moving in slow motion. I don’t know much about basketball but it was like a last minute break-away in an undecided game, with a Hail Mary pass. I could feel the devil on the sidelines, jumping up and down in frustration and rage. I had risked it all, with daring one play, and I almost audibly heard him say - “Don’t gamble the whole thing at once!!! I can only steal one Sunday at a time!!!” <br /><br />And it was decided. We are a church-going family. Every Sunday. No questions asked. We even go when we travel, when we are camping, when we’re visiting with people who don’t go (these times have been among some of our most treasured blessings.) And I can’t imagine what our “domestic church” would be like without the commitment. <br /><br />We owe God absolutely every blessing we have. On Sunday mornings my family and I bend our knees and with one voice we worship an infinite, all-powerful, all-knowing God who loved us enough to slip-on human skin so that we might know Him and understand His love for us. <br /><br />I belong to one of those churches who holds me accountable for going to Mass every Sunday. And I am grateful to her. She is a good mother. She has passed down beautiful, apostolic T/traditions that I cherish, and many have died so that I might “taste” them. One of them is the Eucharist, it is the “source and summit” of our faith, and nothing less than the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. It is a mystery, like the Trinity, the Incarnation, and it is a matter of faith. We interpret John 6 literally. <br /><br />Jesus understands the importance of human touch, and in his incomprehensible love for me, He designed a plan that I might know Him intimately, commune with Him in a special, hidden way, until He comes again. Wow! “Understanding” that--as best I can--there is nothing that could keep me away from Him. It is here where I become one with Him, and the rest of the body of Christ. I cannot do it alone. One of my favorite priests describes it like a coals in a fire - if you separate them they grow cold, and the flame goes out. We must gather together. This is the earliest understandings of church.<br /><br />Having said that, do I believe that God cannot use anything and everything to draw people to Himself? Of course not. But I believe that going to church is part of God’s perfect will for us. It is how I keep the commandments to Love the Lord and to keep the Sabbath holy. But what I give is nothing compared to what I get. God is never outdone in generosity. <br /> <br />I think the whole concept of going to church needs a serious paradigm shift. Too many people talk about not going because they don’t get anything out of it. What kind of Christian attitude is that? It is not about getting but giving. And first I must give myself to God, surrendering to His will for me. Without that I am no good to anybody. I am afraid we have forgotten what it means to truly worship. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-76166257680560974202013-03-19T09:06:15.715-05:002013-03-19T09:06:15.715-05:00I wasn't going to read the book. I will now.
...I wasn't going to read the book. I will now.<br /><br />I tend to go to church when I am feeling good about my faith, and tend to skip when I am not. <br /><br />We do a home church when we don't go...and truly, the conversations I have had with my son are usually so much deeper when we do home church as opposed to when I "make" him join us at church...<br /><br />I realize now that the above paragraphs are two completely different thoughts.<br /><br />I truly don't think God cares where we pray...as long as we have Him in our hearts.<br /><br />I've always thought of church as "God's house", but then quickly realize that my house is God's as well.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />ginanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-5153546918598561902013-03-19T06:47:38.765-05:002013-03-19T06:47:38.765-05:00In reference to smart phones, etc. ruining our lan...In reference to smart phones, etc. ruining our language and ability to deal with boredom, read the book "The Feed". It may be a young adult book; it was recommended by one of my daughters who was taking a YA Lit class in grad school. It is a VERY easy read, but it is profound in its message of where constant internet connection could lead! Cyndi K Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-9022670589413645312013-03-19T00:42:49.557-05:002013-03-19T00:42:49.557-05:00I really appreciate your thoughts on community - a...I really appreciate your thoughts on community - and the highlighting if Acts 2:42-47 (a favorite passage if scripture). Lots of food fir thought. Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08274481412344071315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-51251207417709485692013-03-18T23:19:51.312-05:002013-03-18T23:19:51.312-05:00Oh, I am so glad, Bridget!
DiOh, I am so glad, Bridget!<br /><br />DiDihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15059289426772353330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-41342008510614204032013-03-18T22:25:53.569-05:002013-03-18T22:25:53.569-05:00You make very good sense Sarah! I think it is int...You make very good sense Sarah! I think it is interesting to think of evilness being the enemy. Donna Boucherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06699431983937413613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-86427297749517141092013-03-18T22:07:47.449-05:002013-03-18T22:07:47.449-05:00Christina, thank you so much! This is great!
S.P....Christina, thank you so much! This is great!<br />S.P. from IowaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-36520818417865187592013-03-18T20:59:59.997-05:002013-03-18T20:59:59.997-05:00Christina,
LOVE your comments and you have given m...Christina,<br />LOVE your comments and you have given me much to think about. THANKS.<br />DiDihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15059289426772353330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-26234742570154833712013-03-18T20:57:28.213-05:002013-03-18T20:57:28.213-05:00Christina,
LOVE your comments and you have given m...Christina,<br />LOVE your comments and you have given me much to think about. THANKS.<br />DiDihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15059289426772353330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-24200538434660287372013-03-18T19:35:33.189-05:002013-03-18T19:35:33.189-05:00Omigosh your post was AMAZING. I'll be posting...Omigosh your post was AMAZING. I'll be posting later tonight. You've fueled my fire, girls!!!stephseefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10651078191088887064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-36610560171817893672013-03-18T19:27:27.168-05:002013-03-18T19:27:27.168-05:00The first question is complicated to me. What com...The first question is complicated to me. What comes to my mind as the enemy is: evil. The evilness that is in this world not just our nation. What do I think about that kind of grouping? I think it is a huge failure on a human's behalf. It's so easy to just assume things about somebody, or a group of people. To just go with what everyone else's beliefs are. Whether its related to something in your family, community, state, or nation. Instead, try to make conscious decisions every single day by prayer and not letting evilness sway you. <br />The second question, are Christians supposed to go to church? I guess I struggle with this personally. I grew up in a Catholic church and we went to mass almost every Sunday and CCD on Wednesdays. The repetition of that was great. I still go to church, but not every Sunday. I feel guilty when I don't go. I tend to go when I feel the need. <br />I don't think a person needs to go to church to have a deep faith or move mountains in this world. It's all personal and we are all born with different missions to fulfill. Like Donna said, it's whether or not you open your life up to let the Holy Spirit guide you. I think going to church can keep a person on track for living out their purpose in life. It's so easy to get off track and the evil in this world can creep in and knock you down and misguide you. <br />Gosh, I really hope that I just made some sense! <br />Time to let the dog out!<br />Sarah P. from Iowa<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-12348375207710406892013-03-18T19:27:17.986-05:002013-03-18T19:27:17.986-05:00As often happens when one runs their mouth at leng...As often happens when one runs their mouth at length...I was just coming back to say I probably should have made it into a blog post and then just linked to it!! :) You're gracious and kind with your words. I love this place, where I can give and also where I can benefit so, so much from the wisdom of the ladies here! Christina (fivewalkers)http://fivewalkers.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-22510261655058664492013-03-18T18:57:47.092-05:002013-03-18T18:57:47.092-05:00ThAnk you Christina for your amazing and thorough ...ThAnk you Christina for your amazing and thorough comments. I'm so happy you are reading with us ! And leaving such great comments ! I'm on my phone right now ... So this comment is short. Well done.Donna Boucherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06699431983937413613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-86024244080534236162013-03-18T18:48:43.906-05:002013-03-18T18:48:43.906-05:00Hello, me again - I just bought the book 2 hrs ag...Hello, me again - I just bought the book 2 hrs ago here on Bellingham - I have already dived in and am already enjoying it.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08274481412344071315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-67770568147235638572013-03-18T18:44:12.479-05:002013-03-18T18:44:12.479-05:00Ha! I took so long to write my comment(s!) that my...Ha! I took so long to write my comment(s!) that my first sentence is answered here! :)Christinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12652499105387319726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-84058177191784329192013-03-18T18:42:30.403-05:002013-03-18T18:42:30.403-05:00(And Part 3) (I'm very sorry!) (But I'm pu...(And Part 3) (I'm very sorry!) (But I'm publishing anyway!)<br /><br />Paul speaks regularly regarding the meeting of Christians. He laid out guidelines for leaders. He encouraged the leaders of the churches as much as he could. The letters we have from him stand as a testimony to the fact that there were churches and that they were good (supposed to be in existence). The people devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles, and shared everything that they had. Paul ends his letter to the Ephesians with these words: "Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen." The church exists for the glory of God, and in and through the church he is able to do more than we can imagine! <br />Jesus speaks to the seven churches through John's vision; he doesn't tell them they should not exist. He exhorts them to behave like they ought to, as the church. <br />I think that going to church, being with other believers, hearing the truth of the Word of God preached, worshiping corporately, confessing corporately, receiving forgiveness corporately, passing the peace of Christ, is the way that Christians ought to live. And yet, not to the exclusion of interacting with the world. (Here is my own weakness again!) When we stand with other Christians or sit under the teaching of the Bible with other Christians, we are strengthened and renewed, yes, but we are also united to say,"Glory to God!" Worship should always be central to a gathering of Christians. We go to worship to give God honor, not to receive entertainment or even in order to get fed. The beautiful thing is, though, that we do get nourished when we worship. <br />There are probably many stories about how individuals from a "home-grown" variety of faith made huge impacts in or for God's kingdom. In the book, we even learn that Bonhoeffer looks to Gandhi and his community for inspiration on how to live because they (non-believers) were living as Christians ought. God can use anyone he wants for his purposes. And from Scripture, we know that he often uses surprising people or circumstances to accomplish his plans!! :) But I think that Christians in community is best; it's his design. We often live it out imperfectly, but we ought to strive to live it out anyway. <br /><br />This is a ridiculously long comment. Goodness! I have been waiting for days to talk about this book here with you all! I apologize for such length. If anyone even made it to the end! ha! :) Blessings as you read this book, particularly headed into these next two weeks. <br />Christinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12652499105387319726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-55619137680908194672013-03-18T18:41:38.013-05:002013-03-18T18:41:38.013-05:00(Part 2) (haha!)
Chapter 1
"In chapter1 we ...(Part 2) (haha!)<br /><br />Chapter 1<br /><br />"In chapter1 we learned that during Dietrich's childhood, the Bonhoeffers rarely went to church. Their faith was "mostly of a homegrown variety," Is God satisfied with a homegrown-variety faith, or are Christians meant to attend church, living out their faith together? What Scriptures support your view? Can a person still be influential for good while practicing "home-grown" faith? How?"<br /><br />It is clear from the book (as far as it is correct, biographically speaking) that Dietrich's mother had a tremendous influence, on her family as well as on those outside of her home. I must say, though, that the family life of the Bonhoeffers seems rare indeed! The dynamic between husband and wife seems one that is far from my own experience. It is also hard to compare raising children at that time to now. So many things are different! But their family, specifically, seems to have been unusually capable even for then of cultivating a highly intellectually stimulating environment without being snobby or too good for others. There was a beautiful blend and appreciation of intelligence, beauty (through art and music), discipline, humor, love for family, respect, and hospitality! It really makes me wonder at how God prepared Dietrich for the future, for his future. (I think I'm getting ahead of myself. I could not put the book down. I steamed through 17 chapters this week...sorry!) Getting back to the question: no one can question whether or not God used the faith of Dietrich's mother, the firm and solid foundation he received from her, for what Bonhoeffer would do in the future. And I believe that God also used the strengths of Dietrich's father to prepare Dietrich for what he would face, and to wrestle with the Scripture and the Church at the time. Having said this, I do believe that Christians are meant to go to church. Christians ARE the church, and one cannot be the church alone. From the beginning of time, God created people to be in fellowship, as he himself is in fellowship with the Son and the Spirit. We are meant to know God and be in a relationship with him; we are meant to know others and be in relationships with them. It's how we are wired. When God made Eve and gave her to Adam, Adam basically cried out,"Finally! This is the one I've been waiting for!!" For the Israelites, living in community was life. I think this translates to the New Testament community of believers as well. Even right after Jesus death, the disciples were huddled together. None of them wanted to be alone. In fact, they likely couldn't bear it! And once they were given the Spirit: 42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. Acts 2:42-47<br />The author of the letter to the Hebrews encourages believers not to give up meeting together, so that they can encourage one another (10:25)<br /><br /><br />Christinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12652499105387319726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-65670431183654065772013-03-18T18:40:06.817-05:002013-03-18T18:40:06.817-05:00I do hope we get to hear your thoughts on the chap...I do hope we get to hear your thoughts on the chapters as well!! Before speaking of the book, I wanted to say the picture of Katie is wonderful, and I think the guy in the background adds to it, rather than detract. It is a slice of life. For all we know, he is smiling at the two of you and the fun you are having. :) <br /><br /><br />"In the Prologue, the author wrote that "Winston Churchill fused the Germans and the Nazis into a single hated enemy, the better to defeat it swiftly." Who is our nation's "enemy"? In our own society, are we, like Churchill, ever prone to fusing another group of individuals with this enemy, thus creating a 'single hated enemy"? What do you think about this kind of grouping?"<br /><br />What a difficult, terrible time to live in, those years prior to and during WWII, especially in Europe. (Of course, the US was dealing with its own difficulties...) I think that W Churchill did what he had to do. I can imagine at the time it was very hard to differentiate between "good" and "bad" Germans. And it likely felt impossible not to equate Germans with bad. These days, I believe it's very complicated. I would suppose we do have enemies, and yes, I pluralized it. However, with the globalization and interdependence that has occurred in the last however many decades, each nation treads lightly. I have grown quite cynical in the last few years, and find it hard to trust anyone at all who is in a high political position, in any country. If anything in the history of the entire world is well-documented and could be proved with evidence as far as documentation has existed, power can be a dangerous thing. Even the best leaders struggled (and struggle) with what it means to have a great deal of power (or even just a little). If the writer(s) of the question is(are) getting at a particular group, it would likely be Muslims. In light of events in the last decade +, it is easy to make an entire group a target. We know that there is wrong in the world. We want to see that it is accounted for, therefore someone must be blamed. Someone must be held responsible; justice needs to be served. (Please note: I myself am not saying this is how I feel: the Muslims must be blamed!) I think it's equally true that other groups get lumped-together-blamed for things: Southerners-racial issues; Christians-social issues; minorities/poverty-stricken areas-crime issues. I believe that the problems the world has stem from sin (so I have a definite world-view), and while we can make progress on this side of the new heavens and the new earth, until the day comes that God restores all things, there will be trouble. As Christians, especially, we need to be on guard against any kind of prejudice or judgment that belongs to God alone. We are called to love one another (and please hear me when I say I am the most belligerent lover of the unloveable that I know...I do not want to sound self-righteous. This might be my biggest weakness as a Christian, and one that often makes me question whether or not I even have the Holy Spirit living in my heart. Just fyi); Jesus says those around us will know we are Christians by our love for others. Grouping an entire group or nation as an enemy (and let's even say it were true) does not leave any room for grace and mercy. And looking at Germany at that time, there were many people who did not agree with what was going on, but likely did not have a single notion of what to do, how to stand for what was right, or which direction to go for help, much less the strength to stop such a leader. If this book is correct, Bonhoeffer was a man for such a time as that one. The stronger a foundation one has, the more able one is to withstand an assault. However, as I said before, Churchill was in a tricky spot. A time of war both makes things black and white and creates areas of gray. What an impossible situation! <br /><br /><br />Christinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12652499105387319726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-25034582684509415832013-03-18T17:32:14.419-05:002013-03-18T17:32:14.419-05:00Love that play!
There is an Asher in it :o)Love that play!<br />There is an Asher in it :o)Donna Boucherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06699431983937413613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-63229769921853584242013-03-18T17:30:45.423-05:002013-03-18T17:30:45.423-05:00Our Nations Enemy: Well, what comes to mind for me...Our Nations Enemy: Well, what comes to mind for me is 911 and the struggles with the terriorists. The countries and religion they represent have been under a microscope. I think it is difficult to separate the bad guys from the good guys. Personally meeting someone from other religions and cultures helps build bridges and improve understanding. During times of war this is especially difficult. It is a horrible feeling being judged for something someone else has done. <br /><br />As far as 'home grown faith'....<br />I am sure it can be fantastic...or it can be twisted.<br />Most likely it is in between.<br /><br />Home is a great garden for growing faith. For planting seeds. <br />Perhaps to grow abundantly you must go out past the walls of your home to love and serve others.<br /><br />The Bonhoeffer children had varying ideas and opinions about God and faith.<br /><br />Ultimately it's the Holy Spirits job to make that faith come alive and active. <br /><br />I have not been a Christian living in a non christian country tho....nor have I lived in a home hostile to religion...but I kind of live in a culture like that now. (Madison)<br /><br />anyway...lots to think about...no great opinions or conclusions from me.Donna Boucherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06699431983937413613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-70421601762832538032013-03-18T17:28:53.349-05:002013-03-18T17:28:53.349-05:00Go Go Go Joe! :)
Go Go Go Joe! :)<br />stephseefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10651078191088887064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-16392638838808442442013-03-18T16:55:56.870-05:002013-03-18T16:55:56.870-05:00Thank you for the update, Bridget. :)Thank you for the update, Bridget. :)Julienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-39404330371781590852013-03-18T16:39:32.620-05:002013-03-18T16:39:32.620-05:00I haven't started the book yet. (A weekend of...I haven't started the book yet. (A weekend of back-to-back volleyball tournaments followed by a wedding = no time for reading). Greg's the musical director at his middle school, and tonight's the opening night for Joseph, so no reading time just yet, but I do hope to get to Bonhoeffer soon. I'm even more interested after reading today's comments! <br /><br />Katie's eyes. Oh my. The color is not only gorgeous, but they always look so luminous and full of expression. Just gorgeous.<br /><br />Mary Z Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-86763764347003897182013-03-18T16:32:41.244-05:002013-03-18T16:32:41.244-05:00So happy for you, Bridget!
Mary ZSo happy for you, Bridget! <br /><br />Mary ZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6271225.post-26692096707885856252013-03-18T16:01:12.266-05:002013-03-18T16:01:12.266-05:00I am not reading the book yet, but probably will a... I am not reading the book yet, but probably will as I read the comments and want to know what is going on. I do believe one needs to be with other believers in a structured setting to have corporate worship. Yes, we can worship Christ anywhere, but it is necessary to be part of the church as a unit. I feel like I have missed something when I don't go to church. I love the singing, the pastor's sermons, seeing all my friends who are seeking the truth just as I am. My pastor preaches straight from the Bible and doesn't mince words or worry about offending when he is speaking. He says if you are offended, perhaps you ought to be. If you are offended by Christ and His teachings, He will be offended by you and I never want that to happen with my relationship with Him. Anyway, I am enjoying this book club and will be reading all the comments with interest. Snickelfritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12631235076617656175noreply@blogger.com